Transcript: Tips to Advocate for Yourself and Advance Your Career

Lindsay: Well, Hey there, marketers. Welcome back to another marketer’s takes flight podcast episode. And today we’re talking about leadership, but leadership in a different way. I have a very special guest on, I think you guys are gonna really love her and we’re going to talk about. Using leadership skills, but not necessarily for your firm, but for yourself.

Lindsay: So, I think you’re really going to enjoy the topic and what she has to share with us today. And hopefully you’ll get a little inspiration as well. so, without further ado, here’s Maisha Hagan from beauty in the boss. She is the CEO and head coach at beauty in the boss. And I, I was just telling her, I love the name of the company. So welcome to the show, Maisha.

Maisha: Thank you. It’s pleasure to be here.

Lindsay: So, before we get into our topic today, why don’t you tell our listeners a little bit more about who you are, your career path and how you help firms or individuals today?

Maisha: Sure. so, I am a former AEC marketer. I got started in the AEC industry over 20 years ago, just kind of fell into it like so many people do. And, and kinda took a winding road. I worked for a small architect. I worked for a home builder, I worked for drywell subcontractor, and then ended up landing in general construction, as marketing professional. That was about 10 years of my life and when I left that role, I started this company because I just saw how women needed a different kind of support in our careers, especially in the AEC industry. and a lot of the conversations that I was having with people were not problems that couldn’t be solved. What I saw was that we just literally didn’t have an understanding of the dynamics that were happening in meetings and behind closed doors and on golf courses and at the bar. And so, it just became very apparent to me and just, I had a personal passion to help support women in, in raising themselves up in, in their work and in this industry.

Lindsay: I love it. I love it. I think that’s why you and I hit it off. Cause I have such a passion for helping new marketers or people, new to marketing and proposals and AEC. And oftentimes, that is, I mean, the majority of those folks are women. So, I think we share a lot of similar, similar passions in that. So that’s why I was so excited to have you on the show today.

Lindsay: And so, let’s get right into it. So today we’re focused on ourselves and our own selves, maybe our own career, maybe our own, just more confidence and courage in the workplace. And with that, you know, mindset. In framing and the conversation today. why are we? And we could be women. It could be early career, but we, why are we so afraid to advocate and promote for ourselves?

Maisha: Yeah. So, I’ll frame this a little bit, right? I think right now we’re in a great time where self-care is really being promoted. Right. And certainly, a focus on mental health, right. And mental self-care is really a high focus. And it’s interesting that so much language and encouragement and resources had to be developed for people to feel okay with taking care of themselves.

Lindsay: Yeah. Yeah. It sounds funny when you say it out loud, but to take care of ourselves.

Maisha: Yeah, just to take care of yourself. Like there had to be an incredible amount of momentum and work around that. And I think a lot of that translates when you also start to think about advocating for yourself and your career, right. That there are, I think stigmas, I think they’re fears, you know, feelings of being selfish or greedy, not wanting to cause trouble, you know, not wanting to…. and so, the blah, blah, blah. So, I think that is mentally and emotionally. What’s at the core of it. I think the next level of that is that honestly, we, we many times just don’t know how, right. Depending on how you were raised, depending on what your work environment has been, even your, even your mindset around work, right. And around relationships with management and bosses and leaders and direct reports and all of those things, that gets a little complicated. And when people don’t know how to do something and they think they’re going to do it poorly, they just don’t do it. Nobody wants to, yeah. Nobody wants to be bad at something. So, then it’s like, well, I know that kind of keeping my head down and, you know, being patient has worked kinda, but I’d rather deal with that then the nervousness or risk, you know, causing, causing upset to the system.

Lindsay: Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s so easy for us. I mean, the listeners here are mostly AEC marketers, marketing professionals, business development professionals. It’s so easy for us too… I think it’s a lot easier or I guess maybe safer for us to advocate or promote our firms, our services, other people at our firms, like our principals, you know, or other people we work for and it’s just so hard when it comes to ourselves

Maisha: Yeah,

Lindsay: to put ourselves out there. You find that to be the case when you’re working with women?

Maisha: Absolutely. Absolutely, I think part of that is practice, right? We get a lot of practice talking about our firms. You go to an event, and someone says, oh, so. Where do you work? What do you guys do? And right away, you’re like, I am, I’m a marketing manager for a right multi-million-dollar home builder, civil engineering consult. We just launch into our firms speak. I think for, for many of us, because we are living in a proposal space. We’re used to also talking about our team members. This is our principal; this is our CEO. This is the project executive. And so, we’re, we’re familiar with language around promoting our firm and other people. The good news though, is that we can use that same thing for ourselves. Right. So, one thing that I do and really try to encourage in my clients is we’re going to literally practice talking about yourself well. Like how do you introduce yourself? What are things that you’re proud of? What are words that you want people to affiliate and associate with you and just kind of getting a little bit more comfortable with that. So, it doesn’t feel awkward. And what I’ve found is the more that we as individuals do that, the more comfortable it gets and then the more, natural it gets. Right? So that now it’s not, what do I say? What do I, how do I, it’s just very much. This is who I am. This is the work I do. This is what I really like about that work. Uh, you know, this is what I’m trying to do next, and it’s very conversational.

Lindsay: Yeah, it sounds like it’s. Yeah. It’s kinda like your own elevator speech. You know, we talked about elevator speeches for our firms, but it’s kind of for yourself. That’s kind of, that’s what I was thinking about, but not like a speech, you know, like more of just, maybe more like talking points of here’s the things I always want to say when I’m introducing myself or as the conversation progresses, I want to make sure I, you know, hit this, this or this.

Maisha: it’s literally the same as branding. Right. In your in your company write up. You’re always going to say those three or four things, right. Even when we think about proposal development, it’s what are our pillars? What are our win themes? All you’re doing is branding a particular effort, right? You’re branding a document to speak to an audience. And so, this the same, same application for us individually, except for the audience could be your manager. It could be influencers within your firm, within the industry. it could be potential employers, right? It could just be other SMPs members. I mean, it really goes across the board, but where the principal lies is in that consistency. Right? In that consistency of speaking about yourself well, and then moving that to the next level of also being able to comfortably speak about what you need or what you want from your career. And that’s really now where we’re really leaning into like self-advocacy 2 0 2.

Lindsay: okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s, uh, you know, so, so far, we’ve been talking about self-advocacy. Kind of the intro of it. And that’s like, it sounds like a real fancy word, but that’s really what we’ve been talking about is just advocating for yourself. Talking about yourself. And it sounds so basic, but so many of us don’t do it. And so, I like your idea of just practicing. Practicing and giving us, some you know, to your boss, to your manager, to other, I like how you said firm influencers because every firm has those, right. They might not be your direct line supervisor, but they’re influencing decisions made about, you know, promotions or assignments, that you get to work on.

Lindsay: And okay. So let me shift gears a little bit. And I know a lot of firms I’ve been at firms, and I’ve led like leadership development training. I’ve been a part of it. I’ve led it. I, you know, hopefully some people get some leadership training, you know, through this podcast. And so, we’re constantly in our firms, hopefully developing leadership skills or, you know, there’s different types of leadership skills training. And, you know, we’re developing them ourselves for our firms, but how can we maybe use those skills or transform those skills that we’re learning to help our own personal career?

Maisha: Yes. I love this question. I do, because I think a lot of times when we talk about leadership training people’s minds go to like, oh, I need to be learning something new. Right. I need to be learning this new thing. And I think what’s more important and what’s more impactful is that you implement what you already know

Lindsay: Mmm…

Maisha: And that you do it consistently. And that over a period of time, you do it at an incremental, increased level. Right. So, think about when many of us started it may have taken. I don’t know, a week to write something. Right. And it’s some point you get to the place where you’re able to write that in a day. Right? You’re able to write that in a couple of hours even. You didn’t learn a new skill. You just, you refine that and got very, very locked in and dialed into that one particular skill. So, I think with leadership training, it’s the same thing, right? Where are your skills and your strengths already anchored in and then getting deeper in that. So, if you are, let’s just talk introvert extrovert, right? Let’s just only look at that. If you are an introvert, you are probably much better one-on-one than large groups, huge presentations, right? Shaking hands and kissing babies. So, you can use that one-on-one piece, right? By intentionally meeting with decision makers, influencers, this intentionally meeting with new employees, right? Doing one-on-one training, asking where are you struggling at? Hey, I noticed in this presentation, you’re tripping over your words a little bit. Can I meet with you and just give you a couple of tips that that gives you in alignment with what your natural strength is, but you’re still in your lane as far as providing that marketing leadership.

Maisha: On the other end, let’s say you’re an extrovert and you, you love the party, right? The pandemic crushed your spirit because you could not go anywhere. Are there events that you can put on, especially as a, as a woman, I’m working with a client right now who hired me to do some, to do a presentation. And she was like, hey, you know what? I want to open this up to the female employees in our client organizations and in our subcontractor partners, because there’s still so few of them. And so, she’s basically throwing a party, right? For women with this kind of professional development angle, but she is in her zone. And so, I would, I would say, take a, take an inventory of where your strengths lie and rather than feeling like you got to go learn a new thing, go deeper in the thing you already know. And the thing that you are good at,

Lindsay: I like that. I like that. That seems a lot less overwhelming.

Maisha: Isn’t it?

Lindsay: Yeah, it’s very freeing, too. And hopefully it aligns with what you like as well. Or you can, you know, if you have several skills and you’re really only passionate or driven, you know, or one only one gets you excited, then go deep on that one. Right? Cause you have to have that. I hate to use the word passion, because that gets so overused because like how passionate can we be sometimes about proposals, but you know, it I’ll be honest, you know, I, I don’t wake up wanting to do proposal. Um, but there are, you know, there might be some aspects, but I really liked being in the room while we were strategizing and developing win themes. And I was really good at those strategies and like seeing what the next steps were and for the capture planning. And so, I, I went deep in that. didn’t mean I wasn’t involved in proposals or wrote proposals or put them together, so I think, the skills I like taking inventory of your skills. And then, then maybe the second inventory is like, well, which ones you really excite you

Maisha: Yeah.

Lindsay: and then go deeper on those. And I think, and I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but you probably have clients that have done that. And then the career opportunities just present themselves.

Maisha: Yeah. It’s not that the career opportunities present themselves, because I’m going to tell you, everybody’s looking for somebody. If you are passionate about French fries and flipping burgers, you can go get five interviews today because every right everybody’s looking for employees. I think what does happen though, is that, and this goes back to self-advocacy. They’re able to sit with and be comfortable saying, I really like graphic design and I really want to do more of that. And so, I’m looking specifically for opportunities that align with that.

Lindsay: Yup.

Maisha: Right. And so, it’s not that something necessarily comes along because anybody who’s gone searching for a job, they it’s overwhelming. It just is so overwhelming. But when you can be tight, right? About what you’re looking for and comfortable with that, and not feeling like you have to take something that doesn’t align well in something you don’t want to do, because fill in the blank reason when you’re able to be that tight and confident it, it resonates across the board. It shows up in your resume. It shows up in your interview, it shows up in your conversation at your existing firm, with your manager and your manager’s manager. Right? Because you’re able to confidently say, hey, I’m doing a lot of proposal work right now. And it’s great. I like being a part of it, however, let’s use your, your example, Lindsay. I would like to move away from production and more into strategy. And here’s why. And you’re going to talk about that with excitement and energy because it’s coming from a real place. Right? And so, what I do find is when people do that little bit of work, right? And it’s, it’s not, it’s not rocket science, but it’s hard because you’re fighting against your own brain many times. But once they do get that breakthrough, the ability for them to just have that conversation is so much easier. And people, when they know how to help you, they’re more willing to help you.

Lindsay: Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s what I meant when I said it the opportunities present themselves because the more you talk about what you are looking for or what you want to do, people remember that. And so, they think of you because I don’t know about you, but like, I’m getting a couple of emails a week, Hey, we’re looking for this, we’re looking for this. And so even when you’re networking or, internally or externally, and you’re telling people, you know, what excites you and what skills you’re honing and what, you know, what you’re working on and what you like about it. Then when new opportunities present themselves at align with that people think of you.

Lindsay: Yeah.

Maisha: Yep. And I’ve seen that. I’ve seen that in reality,

Lindsay: Yeah. It’s interesting. I mean, I’m sure there’s some like fate, but beyond it. Because you’re right every firm is hiring right now, I think. Especially in the marketing and business develop, I mean, in all the departments, but it’s really finding, you know, the right fit in terms of the skills that they need for that particular position and what you want to do. And if those align, cause you know, every job is different every job posting is different. so they might not align with those skills.

Maisha: Yeah.

Lindsay: Yeah. That’s great. So we talked a little bit about, you know, advocating for yourself and promoting yourself, you know, this idea of branding and actually practicing it for ourselves. And then, you know, taking some of the, I love your definition of leadership skills of, it was more of like a fine tuning, not necessarily learning new. I love that because it’s so less overwhelming, especially with, especially with, you know, everybody’s super busy and overwhelmed. It’s like, gosh, I gotta do another thing. And so, I, I really liked that concept. and so, taking those, you know, those ideas that we’ve talked about so far, what are some methods or some, ways of self-promotion, the listeners can begin using today to help them reach their next career goal?

Maisha: Love, love this question. I love these questions by the way I do. So, this is something that I call answering the little question with the big answer. If you are listening, get your pen and paper, write this down and then go do it. Answering the little question with the big answer. The little question is, how you doing?

Lindsay: Um,

Maisha: The little question is, Whatcha you’re working on? The little question is, what you’ve been up to? That’s a little question. Most of us respond with a very cliche platitude, right? Working hard, hardly working or, oh, busy as always. Right? That’s a missed opportunity. Because the truth is people don’t know what you do. They think they think marketing professionals are magic fairies that they just send an email to and something magical happens and now you produce this incredible campaign, proposal or, you know what I mean? They have no idea. And so, the big answer is. You know, I’m working on a new marketing campaign to help grow our healthcare studio or, I am actually helping fill out a capture plan because we’ve identified a $20 million project that’s coming online. Oh, wow. Tell me more. Now we’re having a real conversation. We’re really having a moment in a conversation as opposed to. We just kind of said, hi and bye. And I think that that is an immediate thing that people can do. And it also, I give value. It’s a two for one, because if you can, again, speak about your involvement in that from a positive place, right? Or something that you’re leading or what your contribution is now that’s a two for one and you didn’t have to fill out a form. You didn’t have to create; you didn’t have to do anything. You just answered the little question with a big answer.

Lindsay: I love that. I love that I can see that, I’m getting ready to go to some in-person conferences, in March and April. And so, I can see this. I was really getting, you know, in those networking situations where you’re getting below, like just surface level answers where you’re really making true connections when you’re doing it externally. Internally too, I guess, you know, you can use this approach when you’re the first one’s on a zoom meeting and you’re just waiting for the others to join. So, you’re doing that small talk. you can say, “Oh Hey, Hey, uh, Maisha, what are you working on today? Or how’s it going?” And you can use that big answer approach to really, promote yourself, talk about what you’re working on, do a little bit of self-promotion.

Maisha: Yeah.

Lindsay: And just a short amount of time, you know, while you’re waiting for the others to join the zoom meeting,

Maisha: Yeah.

Lindsay: instead of just saying busy, oh, how was your, you know, how’s your week? Oh, it’s busy, busy, busy. You know, that’s the answer we always give. I know I’m guilty of it

Maisha: Stop it, try it,

Lindsay: yes, I am.

Maisha: Try it and just take account of how much better was that conversation, you know, even in just a short amount of time. Yeah. It’s an easy one to start to implement across the board. even in your personal relationships, you know, you come home from work and your spouse or your kids, or your dog, or whoever greets you is just like, how was your day? And you’re just like, {mumbles} and they’re just like glazing over because they don’t want to hear it either. But if you couldn’t do like, actually here was the highlight of the day, it’s like, oh, that’s kinda cool and interesting.

Lindsay: Yeah, that’s it. I need to get my kids to do this cause I asked them, how was your day? Good.

Maisha: Yeah.

Lindsay: Yeah. Yeah. I’ve, you know, I have a teenager and a preteen, so I get very, a lot of one word answers from them.

Maisha: I love it. I love it.

Lindsay: Yeah. So, well, this has been great..

Maisha: Tell them that you’re, you’re teaching them self advocacy skills.

Maisha: I don’t care about your day as you’re just teaching you self advocacy skills.

Lindsay: Yes. I love it. I love it. Okay. So before we go today, all my guests, I asked the rapid fire question. So are you ready for those?

Maisha: I am ready.

Lindsay: Question number one. What is your number one piece of advice for marketers who are new to the AEC industry?

Maisha: My number one piece of advice for new marketers, specifically coordinators is they got a tool up. They have to learn where things are, who are people who can answer questions for them. They need to learn how to ask questions when they get stuck. They should read proposals. They should get involved with SMPS even if they don’t join as a member, at least keeping an eye on programming that can help them tool up. I definitely think your guidebooks and your resources are an incredible way to get there faster, right? Instead of kind of hunting and pecking and trying to figure this out on our own and the reason why is because you’re never going to do less. You’re always going to be asked to do more. And so the quicker that you can become efficient, right? and manage your time now, you are able to diversify into other things besides just proposals.

Lindsay: I love that. Yeah. You’re never going to be asked to do less ever again, so that’s great. Okay. Question number two. What has been your favorite or most memorable win?

Maisha: so recently, like February, I have the opportunity to speak at ASU Arizona state university, which is my Alma mater.

Lindsay: Oh, awesome.

Maisha: And it was about 500 students in person and it was also virtually streamed to like four other universities across the country and just the opportunity to, to speak to young people about vision and why it’s important to have a vision for their lives and, and build discipline around that. It was just amazing.

Lindsay: That’s awesome. Congratulations.

Maisha: Thank you.

Lindsay: I, I didn’t go to ASU. I went to university of Florida, but it’s an honor to go back and give back to the school that like helped us. So love that. And then last, rapid fire question for today. Number three, what are you excited about?

Maisha: So this is a two for. Number one, traveling.

Lindsay: Yes, I’m right there with ya.

Maisha: Yeah, I’m suited and booted. I’m going to have on a hazmat suit and have bleach and a spray bottle, but I’m excited to be on a plane going places. and then my second one is I launched a product. a tool last year called the pocket coach. It’s like a deck of cards that actually gives you tools of how to just kind of show up. Right? And so, the orders for that are still rolling in and I’m doing a second print and it’s very exciting. I was like, oh, I had a good idea and it’s working,

Lindsay: oh, I love I love it. Well, make sure you give me the link and we’ll put it in the show notes so everybody order that when you are ready for the, the second, series of orders. Okay. And then last question for today, this is kind of a good segue into that is what services or products do you provide and how can people work with you and get in touch with you?

Maisha: Yes. Yes. Yes. So, I host workshops. I speak at associations and conferences and companies, specifically to women facing groups, but men are welcome. I don’t beat up on men. and I do one-on-one coaching. My coaching is specifically focused on professionals who either want to pivot or they are had their eye on a promotion opportunity, whether that’s formal or something, they want to create themselves and so people can find me on LinkedIn. I’m super active there. You can also email me at admin at boss lady.coach. Someone asked me why I did admin. I said, because people can not spell Maisha. So there’s that. So you can email me or check out my website at bosslady.coach.

Lindsay: All right. I love it. Well, thank you so much for coming on today and sharing all of your wisdom and great advice that I’m going to start using today.

Maisha: Yeah. Thank you, Lindsay. This was fun.

Lindsay: Thanks again, Maisha for coming on the show. I hope everybody learned or got some tips or some insight on why it’s so hard for us to advocate for ourselves. how to maybe reframe your mind on your leadership skills or what those mean. I love her definition of just not trying to learn all the new skills, but hone in and dive deep on the skills you currently have and then her method for self-promotion by answering the little question with the big answers. I loved that. so, make sure that you check out, Maisha Hagen beauty and the boss, all of her links are in the show notes page, which can be found over at marketers take flight.com forward slash 53.

Lindsay: And don’t forget to hit that subscribe button. So, you don’t miss the next episode. And if you’ve liked what you’ve heard today, please share it with your marketing friends. I’m a firm believer that as our individual skills improve, it helps our entire industry. All right. That’s it for me today until next time. Bye. For now.