Transcript: How to Ask for the Salary You Want and Deserve

Well, hi there, marketers. Welcome back to another episode of the Marketers Take Flight podcast and today we’re going to be talking about all things, salary negotiation, promotions, and just building the confidence in yourself to ask for those when you feel like you deserve it. I have an expert guest on with me today. His name is Jason Ybarra and he’s an account executive at McKenzie Ryan. And he’s got some great advice for us today. I do want to give a shout out to Nikki from the Raleigh chapter of SNPs for connecting us. So, thanks to Nikki.

Hi, Jason. Welcome to the show.

Hi, How are yah.

Good. Good. Before we get into the details of today’s, why don’t you tell our guests who you are and your career path and how you help A/E/C firms today?

Okay. Wow. That’s a loaded, a loaded question. So career path wise, I got into the industry, I think it was roughly around 2006. I actually used to own a multi-sport facility as a partner, because of my cheerleading background. Well I sold out and the lawyer who was doing the buyout paperwork for that sale, her husband owned an asphalt and concrete maintenance company. They asked me if I wanted to join their organization and do sales. I, and I’ve never done sales before. And I was like, sure, I guess I need a job at some point. So that was kind of like the gateway into the industry as a whole and then from there, I navigated over actually got recruited oddly enough, to a construction documentation company and then that was my next step. And then from there I decided to join my current organization, doing constructional recruiting. So, you know, establishing a network and relaunching our desk within the AEC industry back in 2016.

All right. Great. So, yeah. This is why I love hearing career path stories because so many of us, and pretty much nearly all of my guests have fallen into the architecture, engineering or construction industry. So it’s always interesting to hear, and I liked how you use the word gateway. It was like my gateway into the industry. So, So thank you for taking a moment to share that with us, cause they’re always interesting stories. Okay, so let’s get into today’s topic. First let’s start with why is it so hard for employees or potential new hires to ask for more salary? Why, why do you feel that it’s hard for us to ask.

I think we were always taught to never talk about money growing up. I think it’s always been one of those taboo things. I just remember before I got into this line of work where it’s very common to ask about salary, you just never asked anybody what they made. Right. That’s kind of like private information. Well, if you parlayed that, that mindset too. You shouldn’t be asking for more money. You should just keep your head down in the work. I think that has a lot to do with it. and I think another part of it too is. It’s almost like you’re, it’s like, you’re, you’re back to your childhood again, asking permission or asking your parents, if you can have the $2 to buy something. I think it just, it’s a very, it’s a very unfamiliar and uncomfortable topic that has grown upon us. And it’s never really left us, is my 2 cents around it.

 Oh, I totally agree. Yeah, money is. I know in my household growing up, you know, nobody ever talks about it. My mom never shared with me, budgeting or credit card, you know, or just money topics in general. So I definitely think that has carried over into my professional life or my, I guess I should say my adult life

Right? Yeah. Because if you think about it now, it’s not something that’s an everyday topic as a whole. If we bring it up, it’s lightly touched upon. Even when I talk with some hiring managers doing what I do, it could even be a sore subject. Right. Like, you know, well, we don’t really need to talk about that right now. Well, yeah, you do, like, how are you going to pay for this person? Like, what’s the budget? Like what are these numbers that have been set in place? Yeah, I’ve seen it get better, but it’s sometimes just a tough conversation in general to talk about it, it’s kind of funny to you when you get into negotiations and things of that nature, it becomes even more, more awkward because that’s almost a personal moment where you’re now discussing the taboo topic.

And, so when, you know, you talked about during the hiring process. When do you think it’s a good idea to ask for a raise or promotion maybe outside of the hiring process? So there’s the hiring process, right? Which is one set of negotiations and we get, and we can kind of get a little bit into that, but if you’re already working somewhere, when do you think it’s a good time or is it ever a good time to ask for a raise or a promotion?

Right now, during COVID, is probably not a good time to talk about raise or promotion. You know, but putting that aside, I think it’s important to establish what those are within the company. So when you come all into a new opportunity or a new job or responsibility, understanding of how the company functions, when it comes down to raises and promotions, I think that’s important to have awareness around. I also think timing is everything in this whole thing, right? If there’s an opportunity that’s on your career path that has opened up. I always invite people to have that discussion around it, understand why it’s open. What does that mean for the individual,and how they can benefit from it. If none of those exist, right, and you’re starting with a blank canvas, simply having the conversation in general with a hiring manager, a mentor, even HR on what that dynamic looks like. And typically what is the normal timing around it is always good. There’s always a good foundation to start with. Typically you’ve seen, you know, annual raises, right? That’s always a platform for somebody to take advantage of in a good way and open that conversation up and discuss that. So those are some of the ideas that I have around it, but if I had to go back to anything, it’s just truly understanding the moment, and the, the environment of the organization and how they traditionally do it will make somebody feel a lot more comfortable about bringing up a raise or promotion when it comes down to it.

And are those the types of questions, like when you maybe are considering a new company, and during the hiring process, are those questions, are those the types of questions that are okay to ask?

Absolutely. Absolutely. You should ask. you should ask you, you should never assume anything and it’s the candidates responsibility to learn that aspect of it. I think people don’t ask enough questions. What happens is they get excited about the opportunity. It definitely presents them, perhaps a better situation. There’s almost that dating feeling that’s going on during the interview process, almost in courtship between both sides. So I think sometimes we lose sight of the details that are important. We just assume that that will take care of itself. It needs to be asked in some of the ways to ask it is, there’s a great significance of tenure with a lot of the employees here, why do people stay here and how do they get all their career paths? Peel back the onion, get a better understanding of why people stay there. When you talk about progression within a company, what does that mean for the company? And progression can mean two different things. It can mean advancement in responsibilities, which, you know, makes a better title. It can mean financial progression. It can mean a little bit of both. So, bringing that up in the initial conversation. is definitely good for people that are on the front end of, the doorstep of getting given to a new job.

Yeah. I think those and I’m admitting to. I know that there have been times when, you know, I’ve worked at several different companies throughout my career, and there have been times where I’ve been excited about the opportunity and had to either I missed asking some of the questions, during the hiring process. Or I had to slow down and like go back and ask them because, you know, especially as I matured in my career, I feel like after you get that first maybe job or two under your belt, you’re like, okay, this is what I’m really looking for. Now, this is what I need in a firm. This is what I need my job to give me. And beyond salary, but you know, this is what I want my career path to look like. This is kind of the timeframe I’m wanting it to be in. Ideally. And sometimes you don’t know, usually when you’re starting out, you don’t really know, especially in this industry. Cause right. So many of us fall into this industry and we don’t really even know what is possible. we’re just thankful to get a job out of college and get some health insurance. That’s not our, our parents.

Yeah, totally. I haven’t till 25, I just gotta make it to 25 and then I have a good job.

Other than the quiz and the questions you threw out there, you know, asking about progression. What does progression look like in the company? Asking about tenure and why people stay? I think those are great questions. I’ve never thought to ask about it. Well, what makes people want to stay at your firm and who are those long timers at the firm and, why do they stay?, I think those are great questions because that will get into those, like, intangible, not necessarily intangible, but just kind of the cultural side of the firm as well.

Yeah. I think what those, those questions do, it really just opens up that platform of. untraditional conversation. I think you hinted on it. Like you kind of get a better feel for the culture of company or why people want to work longer at a company as opposed to another company. A lot of times, I’ll invite a candidate to ask our hiring manager that same question. You know, why are you here? What makes you excited about coming to work every day? Because there’s such a small window for a lifetime of a career to take place. And what I mean by that is if you look at the time, it takes to interview and make a decision on a milestone in a lifetime, which is what I consider every job opportunity that someone takes. It’s very small. And, usually it’s, like I mentioned before, there’s a lot of emotion tied to it. And so someone tends to usually just favor the good stuff versus getting to know the whole situation and I think that’s important to find out when you’re going through the process.

Yeah. Or even worse. I don’t know who said this. I don’t even know if it’s really a quote, but… Don’t be running away from something but running to something. And so I know, especially in our industry, a lot of us get burnt out or mistreated at our particular firms. And so we’re more of just like running away and we’re not taking the time for that new opportunity. We just are so quick to want to get away from a bad place that we’re in. So we don’t take the time to do the still diligence. And then, you know, in the next year we find ourselves in the same place. So it’s really important. I talked to marketing managers and I’m like, okay, you really need to spend a lot of time evaluating candidates. Make the decision on the right candidate, because it’s really hard to undo that decision. Same thing. When you’re looking for new opportunities, you know, ask yourself, are you running away or are you running to something? And that has helped me, not so much me personally but I’ve mentored a couple other folks in situations. And when they preface it like this, they kind of slow down or ask the right questions or reconsider potential new opportunities.

Yeah. it’s funny you bring that up. I had a conversation with somebody three weeks ago. I put them into an interview process. They had a long standing tenure with their current employer. And they were just frustrated, right? They were frustrated when you spend a significant amount of time and I’ll label that as eight plus years at a company. It does become family. You start to know all the ins about everybody that you work with, especially if it’s, if it’s a boss that you’d been tied to for a while. And I asked him that question, I said, you know, are you running to something or you running away for something? Because the reality is, every opportunity has goods and bads to it. Right. Every company has shortcomings, they gotta work on. And there are other things that they’re extremely proud of. It doesn’t matter where you go. No company is perfect. So I asked that question and then I shared that sentiment with him and he took a step back and he said, you know, I think I just need to have a conversation with my boss. And I’m like, yes, That’s that’s kind of what you gotta do. You gotta be able to communicate through that. And I think when you look at everything that we’re talking about, today’s topic, a lot of it is just communication. Peel the bandaid off and start communication somewhere. So it doesn’t feel so awkward when you have to bring it up. I think that’s a valuable thing to take away.

 Yeah. And that’s what’s so hard. Why do we have to talk to somebody? We have to share our feelings. We have to talk about money. And so that is what makes it so hard for us. So with that, you’re going to have to have a conversation at some point, right? Whether you’re asking for a raise or a promotion or you’re negotiating a new salary. How would you go about preparing for and conducting that type of conversation?

I think the keyword in that question is just preparation. I think it’s important for people that need to document their professional career. There are certain milestones, certain accomplishments. There are awards, big, big wins in the company. Big wins individually, something they overcame or conquered through adversity. Any of that needs to be documented. I like to tell people most of the time you shouldn’t ever prepare a resume to find a new job, but to better your current situation. And, so people always think, Oh, I need to update my resume. Well, you need to keep your resume updated, period. Right. Because what happens when you go to your annual review, what are you going to go off of? Probably in the last two or three months of what you remember. And, that’s not fair for that individual. So I always tell people, you need to document both against the bads. But ultimately maintain your resume with your accomplishments and minimum on an annual basis. Right. We don’t know what the future holds, but more importantly, we know that every year we should be evaluated in some capacity and it’s good to have the proof in the pudding. Note what you’ve accomplished. And be proud of it and share that with your mentor and your boss, or whoever’s willing to listen to it? I think that’s, that’s the way to prepare to have that conversation.

So you were saying don’t prepare a resume for a new job, prepare it for? Do you remember?

I don’t remember now that you said that.

It was really good.

I can, and then that makes the person that much more confident. In conducting that conversation.

So you said a phrase there and I’m going to try to repeat it, but, I’ll get it in the editing, I think that’s a really good mindset to say is that you don’t have to wait until you’re looking for a new job to prepare your resume. You might not ever be looking for a new job, but you still need to document your accomplishments, your wins, your, you know, if you developed a new process. I if you overcame an obstacle. I think that’s what you’re trying to say in the document that at the very least for your own self performance reviews, which we, most of us have to do at some, you know, some kind of level at our firms. But then also when you feel like it’s time to ask for a raise more than maybe your annual raise or to move that up to that next level. It makes, it definitely makes that conversation so much easier. And from a manager, you know, I’ve previously was a manager and I managed the department. When somebody came in with that already prepared, it really helped me justify to my boss in HR to say, okay, they are ready. Look at all of this. I didn’t have to make the case for them. They made the case for me that I could pass along and get approvals from HR or the, in my last case, the CEO and HR. So that’s great.

 I think too, what it allows, just the, the documentation and the inventory of all the things that have been accomplished. we’re all human, right? We can only remember so much. Bringing that to the forefront can also help the boss or the person in charge remember as well. And I think that’s, going to pay that could pay dividends down the road at some point.

And then any tips for conducting that conversation, like how would you begin it even, I know that’s usually the scariest part.

that’s a good question.

I just threw that one at you, so we don’t have you don’t if you don’t want to answer it,

 Let’s go for it. I think there’s a way of doing it for sure. I think it goes back to timing is everything. And I say that, but I’m also going to say this. There is no right time, Right? There’s no, I should say there is no perfect time in doing it. if it’s something that somebody is looking for, and they feel like they have a shot at whatever it may be. They have to take the initiative to break the ice. They have to approach it. Something as simple as just requesting a meeting, if it’s not traditional for a person and their boss to meet on schedule, then request it. And ask why, let’s start there. Hey, I just, I would love to have a minimum meet on a quarterly basis; and here’s why. One, I want to know how I’m doing. Two, I want to know what I could do better. Three, I want to give you my feedback from my seat. Right? That kind of breaks the ice. And that allows that platform to happen. For those individuals who meet regularly or meet at least annually, take that opportunity to do that part and present that situation to them. I think the first step don’t look at it as a big monumental step. Take your step narrow down and just set the meeting. It’s as simple as that. Just set the meeting. If they ask what it’s for, give them three or four bullets that you want to talk about in the meeting. I think we don’t do that enough, from all angles. and I think we can definitely allow that platform to be there and allow this next step to be full, to feel a little bit easier.

 That’s great advice. Yeah. I know many of us have scheduled annual reviews, right? That is pushed to us from HR and corporate. And, I know in the different places I worked in the different departments. I tried to meet one-on-one with staff. Obviously, it’s harder, the larger your team is, but we would try to meet one-on-one on a regular basis. I think at my last firm, HR had us do the end of the year and mid year, that was prescribed by them. But then we tried to meet. I think monthly, I think I had 12 to 15 team members and that got to be really.. like people I supervise and eventually I hired another manager to kind of break that up. Cause that was just like way too many as a manager. I think once we tip the scale over like 10, it’s really hard to really nurture and grow and be there for those team members, but we tried. My husband also works in the industry. He works at a construction firm and at his last job they had one-on-one meetings or one-on-ones is what they called them. And he met weekly with his supervisor. One-on-one I think for like a half hour to not necessarily talk about performance and not necessarily production meetings, but just kind of like, how’s it going? What do you need help with? You know, that kind of stuff. And then he had two people under him. So I think he did their one-on-one, but those were, they were on the job site together. So they turned out to be kind of more like project related. And those were really good because if he had issues or he had concerns or wanted to talk about, I don’t think he did talk about enough of the obstacles, they were overcoming in their projects enough. So maybe I’ll give him your advice, like remind your boss, that all of these, issues you’re solving in the field that never get to them because you’re solving them and they’re not going up the chain of command and the client, the owner isn’t calling you because you’re solving the problems in the field.

I think you bring up a good point. If I had to like to think back and just the topic in general, maybe you do start training towards setting up just routine. If you have no meetings or no time to talk is scheduled. Maybe you start there, right? Maybe you’re staying in four months. Now. I really want to see some sort of movement within this company. Well started four months out. And say, Hey, are you okay if we meet maybe once a month for 15-20 minutes over a cup of coffee? Right? Set yourself up to get into a situation where you no longer are trying to do two things a one One asks for that awkward meeting and then two ask for more money on top of that, because then that feels really heavy, right? Cause we traditionally don’t meet. And then now all of a sudden I’m going to ask for more money, right? It’s like, Oh my gosh, I got to do both in this one setting. you know, that that can get pretty nervous. So maybe you start trending towards that and prepare yourself, which will give somebody a time to kind of prepare their information on why they see themselves in a situation where they can advance their career.

I like that. Yeah. We spend a few minutes talking about your current employment and asking for a raise or asking for a promotion. How is that different or how is that approach different? Then maybe negotiating with a new company as a potential new employee at a new company and that negotiation, well, I guess negotiation process. How has the approach of negotiating a little bit different than asking for a raise?

I think it’s different because, you know, traditionally speaking. You know, one party more than, you know, the other. It’s kinda like, and I dunno why I always do this, but, I always compare the new hiring process to dating an interview today. Right? And like, there’s like butterflies and there’s this sense of excitement. And you kind of forgive a little bit on certain things because there’s a positive synergy going on. So it’s almost expected to negotiate some sort of deal. Right. it’s almost okay in that environment.

Can I have you say that again? Because I talked to a lot of my listeners and they just accept the first offer that they get. So say that again for our listeners.

 Don’t also think that you need to negotiate every single deal too. I just had a conversation with somebody about that, but going back to your question, it’s okay to negotiate when, you’re moving into a new opportunity, especially if it’s not where it needs to be, but I also think it’s important to define that don’t negotiate for the sake of negotiating. I always tell my candidates, the common thing I hear. When I started working with people, when it comes down to looking at new opportunities and we get down that road is, well, I’m going to say this number so I can get this right. And I’m like, no. Why, why would you?, because that’s what everybody says you do. Who’s everybody like, and if they’re telling you this, that means they’re getting the job every single year. No, that’s not what you want information from. You don’t want to take their advice. Negotiate so both sides are happy. Because what happens is, and we can get to the, we can get to the other side of it here in a second, but what happens in, a new company as you’re going along through the process, it’s, it’s a bliss, right? It’s like a honeymoon phase. At least for the first three to four months. And you’re on the front end of that. So the last thing you want to do is create a sense of ickiness too, to that process. When it comes to negotiating, negotiate so both sides are happy. Don’t inflate a number in order for you to get to a number that you’re truly trying to achieve. Give them a sense of where you need to be. And to be candid, there should be that understanding before you’re, even to that point. Right. And I think that sometimes gets overlooked.

Yeah, we started, yeah. We started doing them just in our screening calls just to make sure, because it was becoming so hard to schedule interviews, time on people’s calendars. We started when I was hiring in my last firm, we started. Putting throwing out the range in the 15 minute screening calls. And if they were okay with that range, then we invited them in and met the other requirements. We would schedule the in-person interview.

I tell people, so there was an opportunity that just posed yesterday, the offer was accepted. and they offer the candidate 105 and he was getting at about a 12% pay bum and a better opportunity overall. It’s what he wanted, right. The opportunity itself. And the money was a little bit more too. So there’s a little bit more motivation to. and then they were going to offer him a $3,000 signing bonus to help offset moving from a company vehicle to a mileage reimbursement setup, which he was totally okay with. And so we got down to the numbers and I talked to the candidate and he’s like, wow. You know, I’m excited. But I think I should’ve asked for 115. And, and I said it, his name is Jason too. And I said, Jason, why?. Well, why would you want to ask for 115? Because you’re just supposed to no, you’re not are you happy? Like when they said 115 and Oh, by the way, we’re taking it away. How would you feel at that point? He’s like, well, I’d be really upset. And so then, then you don’t need to use like, well, I just want to help offset the fact that I have to go buy a vehicle now. I said, okay, well, they offered you a $3,000 signing bonus. What is doable for you to go get a new vehicle? He’s like, Oh, I’ll probably, you know, a couple thousand dollars more. And I said, well, then ask for the couple thousand dollars and be forthcoming with it. I need to go buy a new vehicle. If I can get you four thousand dollars more on my son, you bonus. So it doesn’t affect my salary band, which is something that they’re looking at because everybody has to be, you know, those salary bands are set in place that would have really helped my situation out professionally and personally. Is that doable? And they said not a problem. We understand, we respect that. We’ll bump your signing bonus up from 3,000 to 5,000. And, can you give me a confirmation on the start date? And then he gave him that, right. So if I tell people, plan on both sides, when it comes down to negotiating the new company, or the new opportunity, in that aspect, the existing boss scenario, I think it becomes where it’s the opposite of the, of the dating thing. It’s kinda like you get to know each other so well that you kind of take each other for granted. And I think that’s important for both the person who’s asking. And then also the person who’s receiving that you gotta be able to peel that back and get back to the basics of that dynamic and understand, are you deserving of a raise number one? Are you the employee who’s always going over and beyond, if you’re not then guess what you get paid to do your job.

Yeah. Yeah. That’s it. And I try to tell people just because you’ve there another year or another two years or another three years doesn’t mean that you’re excellent at doing your job. And that you’re deserving of a promotion or a raise. Beyond a traditional cost of living raise, you know, the cost of living raise is for just people that didn’t get fired. I mean, I, you know, yeah.

Status quo. Yup.

So, yeah, so I like that analogy of, the dating versus your all too familiar or taking it. It’s kind of like marriage. It’s like you’ve been married for awhile. I think you said earlier you were married, I’m married. I’ve been married for a while. So, you know, you kind of have to reignite that passion again for each other.

It’s funny. and this is totally sidebar has zero to do with work, but it fits into the analogy. A couple of days ago we were eating dinner and I have two kids. I have a nine year old little boy and a five year old little girl we’re sitting at the dinner table. And I just looked at my wife that I don’t know. I’m kind of like, I’m the funny guy in the family, I guess you could say. And I looked at my wife and I just looked at him like, man, you look beautiful today. And the kids just started laughing. Absolutely rolling. and as she went through me, she was like, why not? I said, yeah, your eyes are just like popping. And then my son was like getting the biggest chuckle out of it. But it does, you kind of get into that mode where you’re with your existing boss. You’re just going, you’re just doing your job every single day, every single day. It’s okay to take a step back. Right? And, and kind of be real with them and, and get it back to where. where things came from to get into that comfort zone. Because the vulnerability in the workplace is not a bad thing. It’s a good thing. And I think, you know, when you have those tough conversations, people don’t want to be vulnerable. And I think that’s why they, they sometimes don’t have them or they’re scared to have them.

 Right. Yeah. And I know it’s a lot easier to just go start talking to somebody new. Instead of having those vulnerable, so you go think in order to get ahead, I need to go look for another job and at another company. And it’s a lot easier to do that than it is to sometimes have these vulnerable conversations with your boss, especially if you are in a good firm and it’s a good fit and you’re, you’re relatively happy and it’s a good situation. I don’t know why, but it’s a lot easier for a lot of people to go and just think that they just need to go find a new job.

 I think it goes back to what we said earlier. It’s like, are you running away from something? It’s easy to run away from it? I think that has something to do with it.

Yeah. Okay. Well, this has been great. So thank you. I mean, hopefully we’re breaking down the taboos and I hope to have more conversations like this, to help out the marketers in the AEC industry. The last part of our show are the rapid fire questions. Are you ready?

Okay, so question number one. What is your number one piece of advice for marketers who are new to the AEC industry?

No matter what stereotypes are out there, no matter what sense of rigidness you feel continue to progress the industry forward, because I feel… Like it’s the marketers that are, are leading that charge.

Yay. You just got to like a bunch of applause from our listeners. Number two, what has been your favorite or most memorable win?

Two years ago I was recruited by somebody in the Western part of the state for a predominant general contractor in the state. And this person, the candidate, I was recruiting, lived in a small town, just actually, on the other side of the North Carolina border. So he wasn’t actually Tennessee. He’s your typical blue collar guy. Went back to school to get his education, because that was so important to his life. And like you could tell that that identified him. And he was commuting probably about an hour and a half in Tennessee on a daily basis. And so, when I found him, he was extremely nervous about changing opportunities, changing jobs. They didn’t realize what really existed out there. He was on his wife’s insurance, which they were paying a lot of money for. And I brought him an opportunity that increased the salary by $25,000. Got it. Him and his wife on insurance that was a fourth of what they were paying for with better coverage. And I’m talking about somebody who was leading construction projects, building, you know, $20 million technology. So it wasn’t like, I mean, it was a significant player within the industry and it was awesome to present him on the opportunity that literally changed his life. Which is why I truly love what I do because we can do that in recruiting.

Yeah. Yeah. that’s great. Okay. And then last question for today, what are you excited about?

 So we covered that I’m married with two kids. We bought our house in 2008, so 12 years ago. And we decided in 2008, not to finish our upstairs. So we have a ranch and a half. And, well, this is going to be the year where we start our project lightly. So I’m extremely excited about that. We refinanced our house. got that situated. we’re the bosses of picking our contractor to do our upstairs, which is gonna be extremely exciting and give us a lot more space or add another thousand square feet to our house. So I think from a sense of excitement and like almost feeling accomplished and I will, once it’s done, I think that that is something we are definitely excited about. And, looking forward to accomplishing.

Yeah, that is exciting. Congratulations on that. That sounds pretty awesome. That’s a lot. of square footage. Yeah. Well, good. Well, thank you so much for being on the show today. This has been, I know I learned a lot and thinking back through my life, my hiring and promotions and like, Oh, I should’ve done that. So I know that our listeners are getting it. Hopefully. They’re definitely going to walk away with some tangible advice that they can go apply at their current firm or potential new opportunities. So I just wanted to thank you again for taking the time to come on the show.

Thank you for having me. And this was, this was a blast. I appreciate it.

Well, okay. Thanks Jason, for coming on the show and sharing a lot of information and insight and maybe different approaches that you haven’t thought about in terms of evaluating your own work and your own work performance or those of your employees, and really using that along with goal setting to value, really what you’re worth and give yourself the confidence and the permission to ask for more money, even in times like this, that we’re in today. So I hope you got some insight and some confidence and some courage. I know that I did from listening to this interview. So thanks again to Jason for coming on and just sharing his wonderful advice and thanks again to Nikki for making the connection for us cause I think this has turned out to be a really great episode.

If you want to learn more about Jason and get in contact with him, head on over to the show notes page at MarketersTakeFlight.com/28, two eight for episode 28. And if you like episodes like these, please leave me or review over on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, hit that five star rating and leave me a review that will help other marketers, like you find these episodes and make sure you are subscribed. So you don’t miss any other future episodes.

Okay. Well, that’s it for me for today. So bye for now until next week.

Find Jason at https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-ybarra-recruiter/